Quite difficult question. To my mind, it's better to start discussion from revealing the most obvious pros and cons of living in your native country. I'm from Russia, and there are some things I don't like in there. For example, our economic situation when the average income per person is so miserable comparing with the same characteristic in most European countries. And what about our cultural level? Sometimes it's not safe to walk through the streets.
Of course we have a lot of positive things like our beautiful nature and rich natural resources. So, I can't call myself a patriot, nevertheless I like my country )

Good topic. Ouch, very sensitive issue you have touched, Olivia_ko! From the very childhood till the "perestroyka" time I was a great patriot. I was proud of my pioneer adolescence and komsomol youth. I was proud of our education and public health systems. Unfortunately, the longer I live in my motherland, the less I love it. To be honest, I feel sad.

What made you feel like that? Political system, economic system, people's attitude to each other and to the government? You've said that you were a patriot, but what about now. What made you feel not a patriot any more?

Yes Olivia_ko, our political system, economic system, people's attitude to each other and to the government do not satisfy me anymore. Whatever servants of the people have done, everything makes the life of the humble folk worse and worse.
My record of service is more than 45 years. But I, being a retiree, am compelled to continue my work to ensure proper scale of living for my family and myself, for medicine and rest (I don’t mean the rest abroad!). Having been working at the Soviet Danube Shipping Company, I have seen as old simple people (frail old persons) from West Europe went to cruise along the Danube and around Mediterranean Sea aboard our river- and sea-going passenger liners. Their pension was enough for not merely for the household running costs and medicine but for sea cruise as well. How may it be that the richest country of the world can’t ensure its folks properly? I am deeply ashamed of my Motherland!..

Motherland is not guilty of this. People is not guilty of this too. Work and study, don't give up. If we are not rewarded for our deeds then our children will be rewarded for our achievements.

May be Serj18, I hope to God!

:-) God helps them that help themselves.

Those who help themselves don't need God=)

I am abroad now and I feel myself comfortable in Canada. I think people are the same all over the world...

What do you mean the same? Do you mean there are not patriots at all?

No. I don't say anything about patriotism. I like the place I live and I try to save this place and make it better.
1 year ago this place was Russia. Now it is Canada. If I return back to Russia I will try to bring something useful for Russia.
People are the same meaning that it is not important where you live.

If it's not a secret, why did you move to Canada? What induced you to go there?

another level of living :)

Many people don't know what patriotism and nationalism mean. There are many words to say. Many books tell us about aims of our fathers and ancestors, how to live on this territory. Education wants(and has the success) to bring internationalism in our souls, gives us aim such as material benefits. It is a focus which influences on emotions and controls people's mind. I have allergy to this and when I hear a nonsense I become a bit aggressive :-D.
I think every parent must explain his child how to distinguish between bad and good.

Well, the definitions. What is nationalism. Sold media companies have poured out much dirt on this. They try to turn(combine) nationalism and chauvinism. But these terms are not the same at all. What bad have they found in nationalism?

Nationalism is a desire for saving gene pool of a nation, love of its people, history, motherland, culture, traditions and NATIVE ideology, language, wish and ability to defend interests one's nation.

Internationalism is cosmopolitanism without a clan or a tribe. Cosmopolitanism strives for depersonalization of all nations on the earth, smelting all of these in one boiler, cutting all historical roots and breeding one ugly race "Universal person"



Personality can not be born outside a nation. A nation gives unique features that can not be given by someone else.

As for me I'm russian. I know my genealogy and my ancestors. We have never been nomads. I can not live somewhere else but in my country. I just can not imagine this. I will never turn traitor. While we are alive we defend our native ideology and territory.

I will never become a patriot of the authority. They say that we need to develop humanism and equality(Putin's words) and patriarch says that our ancestors worshipped devil.The time has come. Now we need to give up all bad habits, to go to gyms, to study and work a lot, to defend our ideology. But they say we need to calm down, bow our heads, turn the other cheek(then give our wives and children for an enemy), love our enemies, also we need to hate dislike and hatred(they consider these sins). We need to control our feelings and emotions to not get fooled or become monsters.

Patriot is a nice guy or girl :-). But you better think whose and what interests(ideology) you defend.
All our patriots were killed, jailed and taken to mental hospitals. That's the reason it is hard to be a patriot and support this.

You've said that you would never be a traitor. According to all your words I could understand that you are a patriot but what kind of ideology you are talking about. I wonder if there is any ideology in Russia now. What does patriot mean in your words?

Sometimes patriot defends someone he was told to and something. For me it is a narrow definition.
Nationalist is an independent and educated person that lives and thinks independently. Nationalist thinks about nation and the whole world(also about nature and so on), he always analyses development of his country. So I consider it is more suitable here.
Many people think all was lost, we have nothing....But nobody knows that hard times(thousand years) forced our people to leave the land to save history and culture. They went away and settled on other lands to live safely. I just talk about native belief, native upbringing and all that is native :-) I wanna have a nice conversation with everyone who disagrees :-).

I'm just trying to figure out the reasons why we can't call ourselves patriots. As for me I cannot trust my country or the government to be precise. Yesterday I visited a senior lady who was a teenager during the Patriotic war. She told us all the difficulties and problems they as a family faced with. The government didn't care for them either. They didn't have any bread or had flour with gunpowder (making blue bread with metal taste). They ate grass, berries, mushrooms. There wasn't even any salt or sugar. Anyway they were for their country and they went till final victory. What moved them not to give up?

Belief.

belief in what??

Belief in themselves

belief in themselves as a whole? If I believe in myself, I'll never do anything for anybody. It's selfishness. There is a saying: "Love yourself and the whole world will love you too". Try to fancy that if every man loves himself, who will love him? So it's the same thing with belief.

yes, I was not mistaken. I believe in myself. It means I have will. It doesn't mean that I am a parasite. If one doesn't believe in himself he will be afraid to make a step and will have no will to do this. So he will ask everyone to help him.

Selfishness can become "good selfishness" when you worry about yourself and people who are around you.

selfishness is selfish-ness. It supposes that you think first of your own interest, needs, etc without concern for others. If I believe in myself, I'll never permit others to take leadership, for instance, or even work in a team. In other words it will never let you and other people be a nation as a whole and defend itself.

And why do you need to permit? If you are smart, strong and healthy? So you better step back? "Belief in myself" doesn't mean selfishness or that everyone is a fool but you are not. It means that you believe that you are important for this system, you are a part of this, your role influences much and when you develop, society get stronger... I thought you would get it :-) If everyone think that he can become the best and do all for this he will become. We need to think about things that are close to us and go from one aim to another. One who wants to save the whole world will fail because it is not a specific purpose.

The more you believe in yourself, the more you'll be disappointed that you cannot do this or that. A man is not almighty, he is a bounded creature. Besides it leads to pride. =)

I'm just disappointed that all is going slowly because I often want this and right now. :-)

A quote:
"October 16 1941. I became a witness of a mass jewish escape from occupied Moscow, as I lived in the beginning of Vladimirka - a road to the East. Seven men of a worker cordon, that stopped runners under a bridge for an examination, discovered full pans with gold coins of tsar chasing, rings and other jewellery, cases with money bundles in bank's packing and other hard-to-get goods that had been stolen from the state. By Stalin's order this worker cordon could shoot them according to war times, and all the more so to state of siege. But the event impressed on workers so much. It was very unusual and unexpected. So they informed Lubyanka about this. After a while security officers came, they were jews too, they disarmed all 7 workers, laid them on a hillside with faces down and shot them to the back of the head. And refugees continued their way along Enthusiasts' higway(Vladimirka) with all stolen."

Well, I can't say that I'm a patriot...coz I don't like lots of things about my country, like our government and its programmes, social conventions and so on... may be I would like to live in another country some day, but it will be more difficult than to live here...because this is our motherland, we feel here at home..and noone waits for us with a warm welcome there, we're strangers for them...like they are strangers for us when they come to live here...
And about nationalism..you know,I'm not against multinational country as it is, but still I sometimes understand people who are against foreigners, especially some nationalities...coz now in my own country I more and more feel like a stranger, a foreigner. Some of them behave like they are already natives and it freaks me out!!!

So you think it is good to give land to a foreigner? International marriage is good too? We always helped other nations if they needed a support(food, money and so on). But we did not grant territory for their needs(Our fathers fought for it). They have their territory. They have their own homes, families, fields. They should use them. But it is not their problem it's ours.

yes, I agree with ya. I guess it's the problem of our government that they let them arrive to our country, to become Moscovites, to get our working places..so they finally think it's better here than in their own country and begin to behave as if they were at home..
well, about international marriage - it's a question which have two sides... from one hand I'm against it, but on the other hand - if I had a person whom I really loved and he propose d to me (still I'm a forigner), than I'm for) so it all depends on what place you occupy in this struggle....

every nation has its quality. Many people think that breeding can be used only for animals but humans propagate by the same rules. Sex is not just a liquid exchange. It is an energy process. Much genetic information is given through bio-field. Everyone has family memory and so on. Girls, think before making a serious decision. I would say more but probably it will not be so interesting...



they come, come and come. For why? Anyway they will have to return to their motherland sometime.
Btw, government will never support our interests. The worse, the better. It is a law of fools(of smart fools).

P. S. do you think our men should become more polite and caring? Or these dreams come to your minds because of place of living and material benefits?
I just don't understand what this loved is based on and why foreigners are better. There is the wide choice here ;-)

you know, I sometimes understand why some girls date with the foreigners (especially the muslims)...their men know how to court beautifully, how to make a woman fall in love with them...they are always persistant and if they wanna this girl, they'll do everything to get her...Russian guys are too lazy (I think coz in our country the ammount of men is less than of women and some of you just seat back and do nothing, knowing that you'll never be alone).
though I'm not one of that girls, may be I'm a little natioanalistic in this question)

There are many men :-) I think one can always find his half. But it depends on your aims. If you know who you are and who you will be it will be easy to find him. Similar things attract each other. The circle gets small. I know that I will meet my partner in life in many years but it will be true and clear relation. So we must have the same aim in life. that's all.
who thinks that he can cognize this world only with his feelings is wrong. Feelings always lie. There are some things that a human can cognize with time(only if someone doesn't give him wrong ways and information he can).

Bizarre)who I muslims?

I meant mostly Arabic people, Muslim is their religion

Oh,understand)So ,now I absolutely agree wid u)

2Serj18
I'll disagree with your definition of the word 'internationalism'. Yours is quite derogatory. Let me make some quotations.
According to Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English "Internationalism is a belief in the need for nations to work together in a friendly spirit".
According to Ozhegov's dictionary of russian language "Internationalism is ideology and policy of equality and solidarity of all nations in spite of national affiliation".
As you can see internationalism is not cosmopolitism. I should say that 'cosmopolitism' is more suitable for your definition of the word 'internationalism'.

I use Ozhegov's dictionary too. So what? You better talk what you think please or I don't understand you.

I think(and it can be proved) that we need to think about ourselves then about others. It is stupid when they push their speeches about equality and solidarity. We need to love our nation and respect others but do not love everyone. We usually save ourselves and our relations in a hard time then we help the rest if we have a possibility. You think I need to die but rescue my neighbour? What is derogatory?

So cosmopolitanism and internationalism have the same aims. They call us to think about the whole world, to love everyone, to be equal.
Literature, traditions, knowledge, ideology, mentality, system of upbringing are important. Internationalism and cosmopolitanism should become the last what we need to carry about.

Well, talking about cosmopolitism the bounds of culture, roots etc are obliterate, but internationalism brings pozitive meaning when having all those roots, culture etc you can still be opened to other countries. That's why I'm talking about definitions because you mixed them up.

"Internationalism and cosmopolitanism should become the last what we need to carry about" Maybe it's better to put 'the iron curtain' again? Those both words were and will exist in a country with market economy. It's impossible to leave them behind and to concentrate on ourselves. Although I quite agree with you that the govenrment should pay more attention to its people.

Btw, remember that many men edited this dictionary and some words are not defined correctly(specially).

Why do we need to contact with other countries if it does not bring a positive effect?

Yes, they will exist but not in the whole country. They will also become weak and weak with time.

You see, my friends, this topic is extremely complicated. Everyone of you has his/her own meaning, and everyone probably thinks his/her meaning is the only true. But we all are to respect all the points of view, nevertheless do we agree or don’t. I am a quick-tempered person but I don’t want take part in the further argument. I have a great advantage as compared to the overwhelming majority of you: I lived in the time of Stalin, in the time of Khrustchov, during the stagnation era and perestroika. Each period had both good and bad features. Each period was both fair and unfair relatively to the simple people. The main matter is to be a “black belt”, to be a master, to be a professional! In this way the person can reach his top, in this way the person may be satisfied with his job and his life.

you know, I think there is not a truth. All is relative. For example fire(good or bad?) can destroy homes or can make our food tasty. So when we talk we need to think what position we take.
You always think about last sixty years but we have lived many dozens thousands years and always knew who we are, how we need to live, we had welfare... I know you think it is all so ordinary and stupid. But self-actualization is very very important. The faster you answer this question, the better.
When I speak I try to express common sense, sometimes I forget about it but anyway...
Everyone feels that he needs to accumulate everything(knowledge, money...) and he is never satisfied. He always wants something. So we need to remember and don't get controlled by primitive feelings. There also instincts that don't allow you to get bored :-)
Well, common sense(I think I wrote this somewhere). Once I heard this and remembered. It often helps. It has 3 items. When you want to make a decision you must:
1. Find a competent man.
2. Personal experience.
3. Look up information in heredity.
When one of these items is absent it means that it is just an opinion.

Third item is the base. If there is not a base thoughts will not be supported.
If we take one's opinion(mother's :-) or from history or from a religion... it doesn't matter) it should not become our base. It is just an opinion. Parents were also told. Nobody knows who gave information and for why. There are two ways: right and wrong. One can poke into dirt like a fly or into honey like a bee.
You see that I'm mistaken when I talk using some words... I mean I think that my thoughts have common sense but sometimes I have problems sharing them. I want my country to become healthy, strong and independent(I'm not talking about now. It's a long hard process). I also think that everyone needs to become a nationalist.

Many sold channels show us sold men that inform us that one man became a nationalist and killed 10 foreigners without a reason. It doesn't mean that nationalism is a bad belief, it means that HE IS AN IDIOT OR A MADMAN.
If you jump from a roof after my words it doesn't mean that I'm so bad...
Many parents think they must train their child to be a specialist.
Time shows that they must mould a character. Then it will be easy for him to defend himself from wrong information and to learn how to use his skills.
Btw, I see (I think) that I can have a good influence on my young brother(he is 7). We have learned "A to G" alphabet today(reading,writing,pronunciation) :-D and some words. But I'm not about it. I just see that when parents don't attend enough time to the development of their child then TV, computer, foreign tales and other trash take their place. How we say if we don't care about politics then politics care about us. I will not tell him about economy system :-D but he understands some simple things. Dissent is not wrong if purposes are not wrong.
People who create this information sphere.... they are just people. Nothing more nothing less. They just have a bit more sense, know psychology well. And I think everyone can become smarter, become an independent person. The more independent we are, the more independent country is. If it is order in a family and in their heads, it will be order in the country.

I'm not so patriot person...I live abroad all my life so this is not bother me at all...I don't care..:))

I don't want to offend... who cares? People :-), get me acquainted with man who cares and bothers, who takes your problems. I wonder how easy it is to decline the responsibility, to clear conscience with simple words and sentences. It's hard to change something right now. I said for future reference.

Olivia_ko, I feel like Earthwalker, I want to explore the countries, their culture, language, etc. I don't feel like patriot, cos I live on Earth. The Globalization is a great thing. Look at the Europe it has no borders. I love it! Life without borders! Get the ticket and get the hell out of one place to another (LOL) without visa, without councils, without getting the embassy to make visa. It kills me all the time. In this way we're not free.

hello Im from Russia and im really Patriot of my country!!!